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	<title>Comments on: Looking for the Door</title>
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	<description>Writing, Literature, Art, Music, etc.</description>
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		<title>By: BAP 2009: Foreword &#38; Intro &#124; Cosmopoetica</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-86262</link>
		<dc:creator>BAP 2009: Foreword &#38; Intro &#124; Cosmopoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Dec 2009 03:24:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-86262</guid>
		<description>[...] more recent critical work by Guriel that I highlighted it here at Cosmopoetica. And I&#8217;ve been looking for critics who aren&#8217;t confusing for a [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] more recent critical work by Guriel that I highlighted it here at Cosmopoetica. And I&#8217;ve been looking for critics who aren&#8217;t confusing for a [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris L</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84265</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 15:13:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84265</guid>
		<description>Thanks, Michael. I&#039;ll check out the Graham (though her poetry raises my hackles rather quickly) and the essay-- I&#039;ve enjoyed some of Armantrout&#039;s work. Of course the Sillimanites don&#039;t consider her post-avant enough, but that&#039;s a different discussion...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks, Michael. I&#8217;ll check out the Graham (though her poetry raises my hackles rather quickly) and the essay&#8211; I&#8217;ve enjoyed some of Armantrout&#8217;s work. Of course the Sillimanites don&#8217;t consider her post-avant enough, but that&#8217;s a different discussion&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Michael Theune</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84263</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael Theune</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 21 Jul 2009 14:18:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84263</guid>
		<description>If I may be so bold, I&#039;d like to offer a &quot;door&quot; into post-avant poetry: the poetic turn.

The turn, or volta, is at the heart not only of the sonnet tradition but it is employed in a whole host of popular mainstream poems.  (Billy Collins loves the turn--it&#039;s no wonder that Poetry 180 is subtitled A Turning back to Poetry.)  However, the turn also is vital in a number of post-avant poems and for a number of post-avant poets.  Jorie Graham has made significant reference to the turn, and Hank Lazer&#039;s essay (&quot;Lyricisim of the Swerve&quot;) on Rae Armantrout focuses on the turn in Armantrout&#039;s poetry.

The turn won&#039;t magically decipher the post-avant, but I do think that knowing more about the turn helps to make the post-avant more accessible--it&#039;s one door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If I may be so bold, I&#8217;d like to offer a &#8220;door&#8221; into post-avant poetry: the poetic turn.</p>
<p>The turn, or volta, is at the heart not only of the sonnet tradition but it is employed in a whole host of popular mainstream poems.  (Billy Collins loves the turn&#8211;it&#8217;s no wonder that Poetry 180 is subtitled A Turning back to Poetry.)  However, the turn also is vital in a number of post-avant poems and for a number of post-avant poets.  Jorie Graham has made significant reference to the turn, and Hank Lazer&#8217;s essay (&#8220;Lyricisim of the Swerve&#8221;) on Rae Armantrout focuses on the turn in Armantrout&#8217;s poetry.</p>
<p>The turn won&#8217;t magically decipher the post-avant, but I do think that knowing more about the turn helps to make the post-avant more accessible&#8211;it&#8217;s one door.</p>
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		<title>By: Reading an Avant Garde/Post Avant Poem &#124; Cosmopoetica</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84178</link>
		<dc:creator>Reading an Avant Garde/Post Avant Poem &#124; Cosmopoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Jul 2009 12:01:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84178</guid>
		<description>[...] recently lamented the lack of teachers (in the general sense of the term) of new poetries. Tonight I made the mistake of trying yet again to make some sense of the post avant/quietist (god [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] recently lamented the lack of teachers (in the general sense of the term) of new poetries. Tonight I made the mistake of trying yet again to make some sense of the post avant/quietist (god [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Flarf, Bleh &#124; Cosmopoetica</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84156</link>
		<dc:creator>Flarf, Bleh &#124; Cosmopoetica</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Jun 2009 22:31:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84156</guid>
		<description>[...] I’ve noted here many times, including at length recently, I continue to look for my way into some of these different poetries, so I truly appreciate the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] I’ve noted here many times, including at length recently, I continue to look for my way into some of these different poetries, so I truly appreciate the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Chris L</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84146</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 22:42:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84146</guid>
		<description>I think it&#039;s definitional... I&#039;m not meaning to say that mainstream has no diversity (I don&#039;t think that&#039;s what I said), but to my mind the breadth of the mainstream is a small part of the overall spectrum that I am referring to with the word &quot;diversity&quot; in that sentence. 

Every &quot;school&quot; or whatchmacallit has diversity within itself. We/they might argue the relative size of the section that is called mainstream, but certainly there is diversity within it.

One way I think of the world of poetry is as a kind of spectrum. On one far end is classical and traditional on the other end the avant-garde (in function, not the particularly named movement of the past... I don&#039;t think the post-avant is actually post- anything because I don&#039;t consider the avant garde to be a bounded movement as &quot;modernism&quot; is usually considered). Somewhere in the middle, whether covering a little to the left or right or in total pushed a bit to one side or another, depending on one&#039;s definition, is what I consider mainstream. Within it is a diverse range of poetry, but the entire range of mainstream isn&#039;t necessarily even a majority of the entire spectrum.

And, in practice, what appears on the avant garde side filters down, eventually and in a filtered kind of form, into the mainstream and over time becomes part of the traditional. At heart of the post-avant argument is their contention that what I consider mainstream is really just a rehash of the traditional rather than, as I see it, a fluid, porous space.

Generosity is something I am learning, in part because I have spent a significant amount of effort interacting with post-avant poets in different ways. I can&#039;t maintain my earlier feelings that they are generally pranksters or suffering from a mass delusion or simply taking advantage of a system where they can find a social and cultural reward through taking on appearances. It doesn&#039;t mean I have to love or even like most of it. But I have to believe-- based on all of my other aesthetic experiences-- that where I am missing something, a good part of the &quot;fault&quot; lies with me. 

Really, that large groups of people can come to any aesthetic agreement at all is a kind of miracle, all things considered... I can&#039;t ignore the number of smart people &quot;over there&quot; just because I don&#039;t get (much of) it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think it&#8217;s definitional&#8230; I&#8217;m not meaning to say that mainstream has no diversity (I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s what I said), but to my mind the breadth of the mainstream is a small part of the overall spectrum that I am referring to with the word &#8220;diversity&#8221; in that sentence. </p>
<p>Every &#8220;school&#8221; or whatchmacallit has diversity within itself. We/they might argue the relative size of the section that is called mainstream, but certainly there is diversity within it.</p>
<p>One way I think of the world of poetry is as a kind of spectrum. On one far end is classical and traditional on the other end the avant-garde (in function, not the particularly named movement of the past&#8230; I don&#8217;t think the post-avant is actually post- anything because I don&#8217;t consider the avant garde to be a bounded movement as &#8220;modernism&#8221; is usually considered). Somewhere in the middle, whether covering a little to the left or right or in total pushed a bit to one side or another, depending on one&#8217;s definition, is what I consider mainstream. Within it is a diverse range of poetry, but the entire range of mainstream isn&#8217;t necessarily even a majority of the entire spectrum.</p>
<p>And, in practice, what appears on the avant garde side filters down, eventually and in a filtered kind of form, into the mainstream and over time becomes part of the traditional. At heart of the post-avant argument is their contention that what I consider mainstream is really just a rehash of the traditional rather than, as I see it, a fluid, porous space.</p>
<p>Generosity is something I am learning, in part because I have spent a significant amount of effort interacting with post-avant poets in different ways. I can&#8217;t maintain my earlier feelings that they are generally pranksters or suffering from a mass delusion or simply taking advantage of a system where they can find a social and cultural reward through taking on appearances. It doesn&#8217;t mean I have to love or even like most of it. But I have to believe&#8211; based on all of my other aesthetic experiences&#8211; that where I am missing something, a good part of the &#8220;fault&#8221; lies with me. </p>
<p>Really, that large groups of people can come to any aesthetic agreement at all is a kind of miracle, all things considered&#8230; I can&#8217;t ignore the number of smart people &#8220;over there&#8221; just because I don&#8217;t get (much of) it.</p>
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		<title>By: Jared</title>
		<link>http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/comment-page-1/#comment-84144</link>
		<dc:creator>Jared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cosmopoetica.com/blog/story/looking-for-the-door/#comment-84144</guid>
		<description>From previous chats I know we agree on a lot of this (though I am probably less generous and more cynical than you, at least outwardly so, though I like to think I&#039;m open to be proven wrong). 

My one disagreement is with the sentence, &quot;Despite the diversity, my own tastes remain largely mainstream.&quot; which suggests that the &quot;mainstream&quot; contains little if any diversity. 

This minor disagreement, of course, may hinge upon one&#039;s definition of &quot;mainstream&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From previous chats I know we agree on a lot of this (though I am probably less generous and more cynical than you, at least outwardly so, though I like to think I&#8217;m open to be proven wrong). </p>
<p>My one disagreement is with the sentence, &#8220;Despite the diversity, my own tastes remain largely mainstream.&#8221; which suggests that the &#8220;mainstream&#8221; contains little if any diversity. </p>
<p>This minor disagreement, of course, may hinge upon one&#8217;s definition of &#8220;mainstream&#8221;.</p>
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